i am cooling off 高名潞关于“抽象叙事”的对谈——高名潞谭平 _模特服饰

i am cooling off 高名潞关于“抽象叙事”的对谈——高名潞谭平

2015年6月12日　阅读: 919

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高名潞高名潞关于“抽象叙事”的对谈——高名潞谭平

从形式感的启蒙到抽象的认知

高名潞：从你整个的历程来谈，应该说你做当代艺术跨越了20多年。原来在80年代的时候，大家并没有就所谓的抽象艺术这样一种类型专门去讨论，好像还是就有关艺术的某种精神性和宗教性进行讨论。我觉得从你个人的角度，你对抽象艺术的想法、体验、感觉，80年代末你到了德国—德国是抽象艺术的故乡，1994年回国一直到现在，根据你的经历，可能做出这样的理解和判断：抽象艺术不是从书本到书本，从概念到概念，而是个比较活的，甚至跟情景发生关系的一种艺术。

谭平：对,记得我刚到美院的时候，特别愿意与年龄大一些的师哥在一起，像夏小万、曹力等，他们的绘画以及思想特别活跃。他们对新的绘画形式比较感兴趣，这在当时是非常新鲜和前卫的。我入校前主要是画素描、色彩，对新的艺术语言了解很少，更无从谈起中国的“当代艺术”。与他们在一起，很快地了解了很多新的东西，在其他同学还在做“现实主义”绘画的时候，我就开始把所谓创作中的“题材”去掉，注重画面的形式和意境了。

当时在学校我翻的最多的画册就是《世界美术全集》，特别是基里柯的作品对我影响很大。我一看到他的作品就非常喜欢，感觉他的作品有一种超现实的东西，有种深度和象征性。从那儿开始，我的绘画注重画面后面的东西，逐渐地把表层的东西，一层一层的去掉，使画面变得冷静，但是这种冷静还是有感情的。理性抽象，提倡将感情抽掉，最后变成一种分析的抽象。但是在我看来，这样的抽象与看抽象表现主义绘画的感觉是一样的，平平没有深度。

80年代，我在学校期间，对抽象绘画只是盲目的喜欢，其实对康定斯基、蒙德里安并不理解，因为那个时候没有很好的文字来描述这种抽象艺术，只有一本小册子，是关于现代艺术的书，其中有很少篇幅介绍康定斯基和蒙德里安，说得也很抽象。

高名潞：你说的是赫伯特里德(Herbert Read)的那本《西方现代绘画简史》？

谭平：对，就是那本。我觉得康定斯基的绘画多是从绘画出发，有些作品还能够理解，蒙德里安的就难理解了，他的“格”是怎么回事，如果不理解的话，做起抽象艺术就很难。当时我做的抽象绘画是偶然的情况下的一种发现，这种发现还是从形式感出发的，就是腐蚀完之后出现残破的感觉，这种残破本身就是一种形式感，今天看来，我觉得和抽象关系并不是非常大，或者说只是抽象艺术的开始。

我觉得出国对我的抽象艺术影响是挺大的。因为到了德国之后，你会发现你突然被扔到一个抽象的环境里面去，别人都不用怎么教你，你大概就能感觉到抽象是什么意思。在柏林，有80%的画廊都在卖抽象艺术。我觉得这个大背景，对我从事抽象画，判断什么是好的抽象艺术特别有帮助。

我在那一段时间做了一些抽象作品，这些抽象作品形式的变化也挺多的，刚到柏林的时候对新表现主义感兴趣，大概半个学期后，就又回到抽象，抽象版画、绘画交错着做，重点有所不同。

“叙事”之于“中国抽象”的意义

高名潞：目前我们大家都在谈抽象，那么根据你的感觉，你觉得存在哪些问题呢？你认为抽象问题不存在实验问题，那么它在你头脑当中已经有一个比较稳定的、要追求、要表现的方法，当前抽象对你的个人创作来说，它到底是一个什么问题？你说每次有你自己非常主动的想要去表现的愿望、方向，那么这个方向到底是什么？

谭平：现在大家开始讨论抽象艺术，我对抽象艺术在中国的发展还是比较悲观。就目前而言，政治波普这些东西慢慢走低以后，还没有一种新的流派能够替代今天的艺术形式，抽象艺术便开始显现出来。当然我特别希望抽象艺术能够成为今天艺术潮流的主角，但我觉得这是一件困难的事，这个难度比其它艺术形式大得多和复杂得多。

中国的当代艺术，包括政治波普等，把它放在一个合适的氛围里面，很快就被人理解了，抽象艺术难就难在它本身不是一个“东西”，但是又难以放在一个具体的氛围或空间中，让别人去理解。

高名潞：对，它不是“东西”。西方的现代主义是一人造的、人工的东西。中国的抽象，好像既不是自然生成，也不是完全人为创作的东西。可是它又是一个“东西”，这个“东西”在一开始人和它接触的时候，就具有某种精神性了，这就是抽象一个更复杂的关系。

回到你的创作当中来，我觉得你近期的作品跟你早期的是有一个逻辑关系存在的。你早期的作品有某些你自己的方法，或者说角度存在，不管是写实的，还是不是写实的，你的写实本身也带有很强的构造意识。后来到你的版画，你出国以后那个阶段的作品，还有最近你的作品，其实你还是在一个平面当中去构造世界、构造图像，在构造的时候，你也在思考平面性的结构和一种深度性的东西，我说的这个“深度性”，可以解释为三维空间的深度，或是感觉上的深度，或是一种带有理念、想象的深度。

谭平：其实我的作品有非常强的叙事性，我已经不太愿意说自己的画是抽象画。传统抽象强调点线面、色彩、结构、观念、空间的形式语言的价值。但是，每当我画一个画面的时候，都有很强的“叙事性”，有时候这个“叙事性”被理解为一种感觉，或为一种情绪，如果没有这个的话，我的画肯定是很苍白的。

高名潞：我觉得你说的都是对的。你刚才说的，包括我们这次研讨会为什么叫“抽象叙事”？因为“抽象”和“叙事”是通俗的。西方对抽象艺术的定义是“Art of sake Art’s”，就是说艺术是为艺术本身的，艺术回到艺术本身，绘画回到绘画本身，点线面本身就是点线面的独立性，它存在最初的目的就是要排斥叙事性。

但是在中国，抽象艺术恰恰相反，你要是看过去三十年，包括我以前说的极多主义，恰恰就是在强调“叙事性”。

谭平：对，这就是它区别于西方的独特性。

高名潞：回到刚才对你作品的看法，我感觉你绘画当中的“平面性”是一个陷阱，一大片红猛一看就是一个抽象的，完全没有细节，没有任何叙事的东西，但是你越仔细看，越会发现那个圆与其他因素之间的关系，而且你画的时候那种微妙的手动的痕迹，实际上是表现性的。

谭平：对。

高名潞：那这些微妙的痕迹是叙事的。而这个“叙事”，又和刚才所说的“平面性”产生了对比，这个对比非常重要。当然你的平涂不是完全机械的平均的平涂，这里面也有微妙的层次变化，但是那种平涂和手动的那些细节之间的对比，让人形成了一种感觉、感应。就像看传统文人画，画家在一张宣纸上用手画出的笔触非常微妙，你得去体验，要跟踪他运动的过程和细节，笔触的每一笔，甚至飞白都要好好的去体验，就是这种过程，这种心理叙事，心理经验的一种叙事形成了巨大的反差，使观众进入和你作画状态合拍式的体验。

同时，他还要理性地去看这个画面当中手动的部位到底是怎么分配的。这又出现了问题了，一旦要平面分配，就要有中心和边缘，人类任何个体，任何群体，大到国家，小到家庭，中心和边缘永远是潜在的结构。尽管后现代主义、后结构主义想去掉这个东西，给人更大的自由，但实际上这个“边缘”和“中心”是永远去不掉的，它由社会所决定。

大家会关注边缘和中心，你那些手动的圆或者形象，在画面游动的时候会有这方面的追踪和理性分析。反正我看的时候，我会觉得你那个东西实际上是不稳定的，它的结构关系决定它在游动，但是它的动又总是往边上走，它总是引导你往画面外边走，有这种感觉。

谭平：对，确实是。

高名潞：如果单纯看的话，你画一个三度空间就完了，现在我们恰恰是要“体验”，这个“体验”也恰恰是中国传统的东西。回到抽象叙事，就是既抽象，还得叙事，否则就和西方的抽象没有什么区别。“抽象和叙事”、“平面和深度”、“体验和看”，就是这些东西构成中国当代抽象艺术一个非常明显的特点。

谭平：这让我想起丹麦的艺术家比尔，是做行为艺术的，他在丹麦包括在德国是非常有影响的艺术家。他看了我的画，说：“我看你的画给我的感觉，就像进了一个皇宫……你的画像壁画一样，远看是一个颜色，但是近看是有故事的，是不断的流动的。”我画那个圈是画一遍上面盖一层，在这个上面再画圈，实际上是由很多层叠加上去，像一个故事一样，一段段的，可以没有具体的连接，但是有非常强的整体性。

高名潞：对呀，是这样。

谭平：他认为这区别于他们的抽象艺术。

高名潞：对，本来抽象是不应该叙事的，叙事就不应该有抽象，但是把抽象和叙事结合到一起，恰恰是悖论的统一体。这个悖论的统一体揭示出了它的特点，揭示出了它和西方类似的这种艺术类型之间的区别。但是我现在思考的是，“抽象”和“叙事”这两个概念都太概念化了。

谭平：原来最早提出融合。

高名潞：其实融合也不是很好。回到你刚才说的那个“故事”，你可以看到，按照刚才说的“抽象和叙事”的关系，“平面和深度”的关系，其实你早期的作品都能够看到。在这个阶段的时候，你的“叙事”是通过这样的方式表现出来的，“抽象”尽量把“叙事”具体化，三维空间和它们之间有逻辑关系的东西，比如说情节性，把叙事当中无意义的东西尽量强化。

谭平：这个你说得特别准确。

中国抽象话语的瓶颈

高名潞：你所有的阶段里，显然是叙事性的东西造就了一个基本情节逻辑，你可以去解释许多东西，别人也可以去发挥，解释和发挥的意义可以无限延展，但是也提供了一个叙事的基本文本，一个基本套路，所有的这些都可以归纳出来。

你这种叙事紧紧跟着你自己画的时候那种体验，它和中国传统画不一样的是，它不让你走向一个太放任、太表现性的地步。你还得把它限制在那个叙事和非叙事的关系层面，从这个角度来分析，你从前到后的逻辑性基本上就出来了。

谭平：还真是。

高名潞：你早期和现在的逻辑性是一样的，只不过不同的阶段有不同的分配而已，但是你自己的这套方法始终没有丢掉过。

谭平：对，可能看我的作品观者会觉得里面有故事，但是这需要每个人去理解，所谓抽象就在这儿呢。

高名潞：对，所谓抽象就在这儿，这个特别重要。你这个东西跟里奇斯丁比较的话，他有一个红色侵入白的区域，他画了一个红色箭头，进入一个白的大块里面，他的指向性是很明显的，有政治意义，红色代表一种革命精神，侵入一种白色主义，他是用一个硬边的三角形，非常武断的表达他的感情，但是你这个就不是，你是非常中性，非常柔和的。

谭平：但是又很强烈。

高名潞：又很强烈，你不是一种强迫的，不是说我给予你的，你必须得接受。蒙德里安的东西是必须得接受，没有什么好说的。你的作品不是，你的叙事必须通过你的体验才行，你个人体验出来，提供给你一种非常中性的开放空间去游动，所以这个“叙事”当中还是很有可说的。

谭平：你比我清楚我的作品。

高名潞：因为艺术家自己很难停下来不动，你本身和你的作品没有距离，但是搞理论的跟你本身有距离，我随时都可以停下来，我可以看看别人再回过头看你，这是搞理论的特殊视角。我就是这样的，我看看西方，看看马列维奇，看看里奇斯丁，看看蒙德里安，我再看看你，然后我再想中国、西方的东西，关键是看你个体的时候，我要从你的前面和后面，对你这个人的历史我有所了解，再加上刚才的比较，我放到结构当中去就发现你的特点了。

谭平：这样的话，会发现很多抽象艺术家表达的叙事性就不一样。这种案例分析比较有意思，原来对抽象的评价都是泛泛的。

高名潞：对，都是大而化之。

谭平：现在分析写实作品的时候就比较深入和细腻，既可以从形式角度分析，也可以从叙事角度去分析，但是到了抽象你会发现没有人能够这样具体。

高名潞：没有人能够这样，确实是这样的。因为它需要很多方面的因素。就像我刚才说的，比较性结构因素之外，还涉及到—特别是讲中国艺术家的时候—比如说中国传统水墨画的因素，中国传统绘画透视的问题。所以我觉得它是一个综合性的，为什么抽象特别难，因为它确实是一种高级的东西，这种高级性需要真正的被阐发出来。如果阐释出来的话，这种高级性就是中国艺术的代表，但是怎么样把这些东西阐释出来呢？实际上重要的不在于我们现在给抽象艺术做什么界定，什么是抽象艺术？什么是中国的抽象艺术？首先紧要的是我们有没有阐释、描述、分析抽象艺术的能力。

谭平：确实是这样的，现在很大的问题就是基本能力的问题。

高名潞：对，这个能力是一个系统，它本身也是叙事性，是对抽象艺术的分析、研究的叙事。我们自己有这个叙事，但没有这个叙事系统。具体到每一个艺术家个体的抽象叙事和抽象艺术创作的发展历程上，怎么样去把他描述出来？这并不是你给了我一堆画，我就能解释出你的文本那么简单。首先你自己得有这个平台，你有了这个平台，它自然而然就出来了，为什么要花这么多工夫进行学术上的讨论，我背后的潜台词就是这个意思，讨论是在受众层面上的，是为了让大家明白，但是真正去做的话，还是挺难，还只有少数人在做。

谭平：其中就有我们。

The Conversation about “Abstract Narrative”

From the Search for Forms to Abstract Art

Gao Minglu: Your career as a contemporary artist has spanned for over 20 years. Back in the 1980s, there were only very few who treated abstract art as a formal art category worth of investigation, except from its spiritual and religious implications. I believe that from your point of view, from your own experience and understanding of abstract art, and the fact that you went to Germany—the cradle of abstract art at the end of the 1980s and stayed until 1994, you may arrive at such a conclusion, that abstract art does not derive from books or concepts, instead, it is a lively form of art closely connected to everyday circumstances.

Tan Ping: It’s true. When I first came to CAFA, I often hung out with senior students like Xia Xiaowan and Cao Li because I was particularly attracted to their works and ideas. They were passionate about experimenting with new forms, which was considered avant-garde at the time. Before I came, my artistic training was limited to drawings and paintings, and I had little knowledge of the new language of forms, not to mention “contemporary art” in China. As a result I was soon exposed to a multitude of new expressions, so when most of my contemporaries were still engaged in the so-called “realistic art”, I already embarked on the “de-thematizing” of my works and concentrated on forms and artistic ambience.

One book that I read most often in those days was the International Encyclopedia of Art. I was particularly keen on Chirico’s works. It was almost love at first sight. I felt that the surrealism in his works conveyed a sense of depth and symbolism. From that time on, I have shifted my focus from the surface of paintings to what lies behind. By peeling off their surfaces, layer by layer, I pacified my paintings, but not without emotions. Rational abstractionism demands a high level of analysis almost devoid of any feelings or emotions. But the way I see it, such abstraction has the same problem with abstract expressionism, both of which tend to go to extremes.

In the 1980s, when I was a student in CAFA, I like abstract art out of mere enthusiasm and knew only a little about the arts of Kandinsky and Mondrian, because there weren’t many good literatures about abstract art available to me at the time. All I had was a little book about modern art, with some brief introductions on Kandinsky and Mondrian, also explained in abstract terms.

Gao Minglu: Are you talking about A Concise History of Modern Painting by Herbert Read?

Tan Ping: Yes, that’s the one. Kandinsky might be easier to understand for he starts from the point of painting, but Mondrian is a different case. What is Mondrian’s “grid”? It’s difficult to create abstract art without the thorough understanding of the concept. My abstract art was born out of pure accident, during one of my many experiments of forms. I discovered a rather interesting form when the copper plate was eroded too long by acid. Now I come to think of it, it was in no sense abstract, but it was indeed the starting point of my abstract art.

The overseas experience has profound influence on my art. In Germany, I found myself constantly surrounded by abstract art that I could understand it pretty well even without anybody telling me what it was. In Berlin, 80% of galleries were exhibiting abstract artworks. In such an atmosphere, I was much better equipped to understand and create abstract art.

I produced a variety of abstract works during that time. When I first came to Berlin, I became interested in Neo-expressionism. About half a semester later, I returned to abstraction, making both prints and paintings, with a different priority each time.

The Significance of “Narrative” to “”Chinese Abstraction”

Gao Minglu: Nowadays it seems that everybody on the street is talking about abstract art. What do you think of it? You once said that there’s no experimental issue in your abstract art. I believe that is because you already have a clear vision of what you are going to pursue and express. Have you confronted any issues in your current art practice? Besides, you mentioned that every time you painted, you felt urged by a strong aspiration or guided by a certain orientation of expression. What exactly is that orientation?

Tan Ping: After 1995, I gradually shifted my focus from forms to the expression of my personal experience. By that time, the word “abstract” no longer mattered so much to me. The commonly known “abstract” is very different from my personal perception of it. For example, when a circle appears in my painting, viewers may only see it as an abstract shape, but it actually stands before me as a visual reminder of some incredible experiences that I once had. It could symbolize a mutilated human cell, which is anything but abstract. It is soft and yet solid… All of these are lively, breathing objects that convey a sense of expansion, eruption, or even the impression of a quiet dialog. These are all tangible feelings. Only when I feel this can I have the motivation to paint. I believe art is in a sense extremely personal, especially abstract art.

Despite the fact that everyone are beginning to discuss abstract art, I am still rather pessimistic about its future in China. At present, since the cooling-off of political pop art, we haven’t found any other fresh art form to take its place. That was the context in which abstract art began to draw people’s attention in China. Though I certainly hope that abstract art will have a leading role to play in China’s future art trend, I think the odds are very much against it, since it is so much more difficult and complicated than other art forms.

China’s contemporary art, including political pop art, can be immediately understood when you put it into certain contexts. The difficulty with abstract art is that it isn’t supposed to be a “thing” to be placed in concrete context or space, making its interpretation rather challenging.

Gao Minglu: Indeed it isn’t a “thing”. Western modernism is a human invention. The birth of Chinese abstractionism, however, is either completely natural or artificial. And yet it is still a “thing”. And this “thing” immediately obtains a certain degree of spirituality when it first comes into contact with people. That is the complexity of Chinese abstractionism.

Back into your art practice, I think your recent works have a logical link with your earlier works. Your early works, be it realistic or not, have demonstrated a personal inclination or perspective, that is, your strong awareness of construction. In your later works, including those produced in Germany and your recent works, you are still constructing images on a canvas, but you are already contemplating on the structure and depth that could be achieved on a two-dimensional media. I would call it “deepness”, which could be interpreted as three-dimensional depth, or the depth of experiences, ideas and imaginations.

Tan Ping: I regard my works as narratives. I don’t even like to call them “abstract” anymore. Traditional abstraction emphasizes the value of formal languages such as dots, lines, plates, color, structure and space. But every time I paint, I construct narratives. It isn’t necessarily storytelling. It could also be understood as the expression of feelings or moods. My paintings would lose their complexity and subtlety if I took away these narratives.

Gao Minglu: Absolutely. Just now you raised a question: why is our seminar called “abstract narrative” since both “abstract” and “narrative” are popular concepts. The western definition of abstract art is “art for art’s sake”, that is to say, art has to return to art, painting to painting. Dots, lines and plates thus achieve their independence. It is safe to say that the foremost scheme of western abstract art is to get rid of narratives.

But in China you see just the opposite. In retrospect, Chinese abstractionism in the past thirty years, including maximalism I mentioned earlier, emphasized nothing but “narratives”.

Tan Ping: Yes. That is what differentiates us from the West.

Gao Minglu: Let’s return to your works. I have the impression that the “shallowness” in your paintings is just a trap. At first glance, one sees nothing but a huge red plate, which seems very abstract, without much detail or narration. But upon closer inspection, one discovers the link between, say, a circle on the canvas and other elements. And the brushstrokes left by your hand movements are highly expressionistic.

Tan Ping: It is true that I am telling a story each time I paint, a story about the interconnection and interaction between brushes.

Gao Minglu: Those subtle traces are narratives, which come in stark contrast with the “shallowness” that we just mentioned. Such contrast is important, for instead of covering the whole canvas with equal brushes, you have given it a variety in layers. It is the contrast between equal brushes and the richness of details that communicates with the viewers. If we look at traditional Chinese paintings by intellectuals, the way they applied ink on rice papers are so subtle that you have to pay intense attention to capture the various movements of the brushes, even the stretch between two brushes. It is the process of such psychological narrative that encourages the viewers to participate in the artist’s experience.

At the same time, the artist has to decide how to distribute brushstrokes on the canvas, and distribution will inevitably divide the painting into center and margins. The structure of any units in human society, be it nations, communities or families, can never escape the distinction between center and margins. Even though post-modernism and post-structuralism tried to remove such distinction in order to give human beings more freedom. They never really succeeded because such distinction is firmly rooted in social structures.

People are naturally aware of centers and margins, just as you are when you paint your circles or other symbols onto the canvas. You pay close attention and apply rational analysis to decide their distribution. The way I see it, your distribution of brushes is in fact unstable, determined by their structural relations. And the movements seem always outward, leading you to go beyond the canvas.

Tan Ping: It is true that many dots I paint rest in the margins of the canvas, as if they could disappear in any minute, which convey a sense of unstableness and expanding tension. The space beyond the canvas is also significant to me, if not more significant, since it enriches my experiences.

Gao Minglu: From a simplistic view of abstraction, all you have to do is to create a three-dimensional space. But what we demand here is “experience”, a concept deeply rooted in our traditions. The so-called abstract narrative means you have to be both abstract and narrative at the same time, otherwise, there won’t be any difference between Chinese and Western abstractionism. “Abstraction and narrative”, “flatness and depth”, ”seeing and experiencing”, these binary concepts constitute some of the distinct characteristic of contemporary Chinese abstract art.

Tan Ping: It reminds me of a Danish performance artist Bill, one of the most influential artists in Germany and Denmark. When he saw my paintings, he told me, “looking into your paintings is like stepping into a palace…They are like frescos, one sees only colors from a distance, but stories when one gets closer. It is the flow of time. ” I painted multiple layers of circles, one covering the other, just like different episodes of a story, navigating from the surface to the core. Though there’s no definite connection between, it is a highly integrated whole.

Gao Minglu: Exactly.

Tan Ping: That was what Bill regarded different from their abstract art.

Gao Minglu: Indeed, abstract art originally excludes narratives, and vise versa. Combining abstraction and narratives is like uniting opposite poles. Such union differentiates Chinese abstractionism from its western counterpart. But what I am thinking is that both “abstraction” and “narrative” are two conceptual.

Tan Ping: You are the very first who suggests the union of the two.

Gao Minglu: In fact union is not good enough. Back to the “story” you told, you can see that the relations between “abstraction and narrative”, between “shallowness and depth” have already been demonstrated in your earlier works. At that time, your narrative is expressed through abstraction. It is precisely “abstraction” that has lent concreteness to your “narrative”. There are logical links in the three-dimensional space, for example, plots. Through abstraction, you have given meaning to what is usually deemed meaningless in narratives.

Tan Ping: I can’t agree more.

The Bottleneck of Chinese Abstraction

Gao Minglu: In your works, narrative is the basic logic plot of your story, and you can explain the story in various ways, so does the others. The analysis and explanation of your work can be free without restriction, however, I offer the audience a basic story, a general direction, so all these can be concluded.

This kind of narrative has a close relationship with your personal painting experience, which is varied from traditional Chinese paintings. It won’t make you too expressive, or too subjective. However, you should keep it at the level of narrative and non-narrative. From this point of view, the logic of working process is very clear.

Tan ping: The point of this kind of narrative is hand to manage.

Gao Minglu: The basic logic in your early works and works today is the same. The difference of each stage of your painting is caused by the variation of arrangement, but you have never thrown away your own way of painting.

Tan ping: Yes, the spectators of my painting may find that there are stories behind my works, but the content of these stories requires their personal understandings and this is the meaning of abstraction.

Gao Minglu: Yes. This is where the meaning of abstraction lies, which is very important. Compare with Ricky Stin, whose work is very political and assertive with red arrows and steady white triangle, your works are much more medium and soft.

Tan ping: But also very powerful.

Gao Minglu: Also powerful. Your power is not involuntary, which force others to agree. The works of Mondrian must be admitted. But your work isn’t, your way of narrative need to be appreciated through your own experience, which offer you a much more neutral environment to paint. So there are lots to talk about the word “narrative”.

Tan ping: You know my work even better than myself. To me, the area between is very narrow, which means that my experience is true and sensitive, but to my audience, I wish my works can give them more space and freedom to imagine.

Gao minglu: This is because artists are hard to stop painting, so there is no distance between you and your work, however, critics are different. We have a distance from your works, and we can stop whenever we like to have a look at other artists, then back to evaluate your works. This is the special view point of our critics. I’m one of them, having a look of west, Malevich，Ricky Stin, Mondrian, then you, then think about China and West paintings. The point is that when look at your work, I should know your background, together with that comparison above, I can find your place in the large environment and find the unique characteristic of your works.

Tan ping: So you can find that many abstract artists have different way of narrative. This kind of examples analysis is very interesting, while the old way of critics about abstract painting is just too superficial.

Gao Minglu: Yes, too general.

Tan ping: Today, when analysis realism paintings, it is always exquisite and deep-going, both from the perspective of outside form and the angle of narrative, but as to abstract paintings, you will find there is no critics can be so detail.

Gao Minglu: No one can. It is so. It requires elements from various aspects. Just like what I’ve just said, besides the element of comparison, it also involves with the elements of traditional Chinese paintings, especially when talking about Chinese artist, about the perspective problem in traditional Chinese painting. So I find that it is a multiple issue, and the reason why the critic about abstract painting is hard, is that it is superior, and this kind of superiority should be stated. If stated out, this superiority is the representation of Chinese art, but how to expound it? In fact, the point isn’t the definition of abstract art or what Chinese abstract art is but whether we have the ability to explain, descript and analyze.

Tan ping: That’s right. The problem today is the problem of basic abilities.

Gao Minglu: Yes. This kind of ability is a system. It is narrative itself, is a narrative of the analysis and research about abstract art. We have this kind of narrative but not the system. As specific to the process of an abstract artist’s development, how to narrative it? It is not as simple as that once you give me a pile of paintings, I can give you a story immediately. At first you need the platform, when you have such a platform, it will comes out naturally, so why we spent so much time on academic discussion, while the discussion should base on recipients. However, it is easier to say then to do. Only a few of us are doing it now.

Tan ping: We are one of them.

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相关图片：

cooling off post dancing